ADAS Empowered

Joel (00:01.834)
All right, welcome everybody to the ADOS Empowered Community Podcast. My name is Joel Adcock. I'm the Director of Partnerships here at Rev. We have today with us a special guest, Bruno Moretti. Bruno is the President of Essential Technologies and has been in and around the automotive and repair markets for many years. And we are excited to have him as part of the podcast today.

Bruno, again, appreciate you being here, appreciate you accepting our invitation to be part of this. This is really exciting for us. really quick, just a quick PSA on this podcast. This is where we want collision repair techs, estimators, shop owners, and managers to come hang out, sharpen their knowledge a little bit, stay ahead of the curve, talk about what really matters in the repair industry. our goal is to kind of cut through a lot of the noise with honest conversations and folks like Bruno who are really out in front of.

Brunno Moretti (00:32.12)
course.

Joel (01:00.204)
making sure cars get fixed correctly. So as we like to say, whether you're turning wrenches or turning strategy into results, we think this podcast is for you. So without further ado, let's get into it here. So Bruno, go ahead and take a few minutes, introduce yourself. We'd love to hear a little bit about your background, kind of where you've come from, what you're doing currently at Essential and what they're responsible for. And we'll dive into some topics here.

Brunno Moretti (01:21.538)
Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (01:28.29)
You bet. Yeah. So yeah, thanks again for having me. I think it's a, it's a great mission, right? I think there's a lot of lacking information and other things that a podcast like this can help solve. Right. So, appreciate you guys putting that together and inviting me. So, yeah, no. so look, I've been in the automotive industry, you know, from out of college, right? So I went to school for electrical engineering and, I worked on, you know, general motors for, for about 10 years. most of that time was

Working with ADAS, right? So very early on when backup cameras just became a federal requirement, I worked on the surround view, the rear camera mirror, then I really got into some ADAS with Super Cruise from camera development. So a lot of the ADAS then later, you know, in my time at GM, I was working with the next generation of Super Cruise and also with the

crew's automation team, not to get confused, the, you know, in San Francisco that was doing all of the robo taxis. And I was responsible for all of the hardware for the sensors, right? So cameras, radars, lighters, microphones, ultrasonics, right? So everything from, a technical perspective. as part of the teams designing the architecture, part of the teams defining the, you know, technical requirements of those sensors and what they had to see and how they had to react and all of that good stuff.

Joel (02:50.572)
Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (02:55.63)
Then I spent a couple of years at a company called ZF. They're a large tier one supplier for the automotive industry. Also responsible for making cameras, radars, a bunch of other things, including airbags and suspensions and a bunch of other things. I was responsible for the North American market there. And then the past three years, I was working at a company called SEPTON for lidars. So again, a different sensor modality that's coming.

that uses lasers to create a 3D mapping of the world around the vehicle. And then for the past almost like eight months now, I've been at Essential Tech. So I run their ADAS division and with the focus of leveraging Essentials technology, which is a lot of people may know Essential as previously known as Burke Porter. Burke Porter has been in the industry for 70 years, seven zero. I just want to make sure people understand.

Joel (03:48.108)
Yep.

Joel (03:53.82)
Mm-hmm. 7.0, yes.

Brunno Moretti (03:55.534)
And you know making all of the end-of-line equipment for OEMs. So all of the Anything that's test the measurement, know, Burke Porter does You know, there's a bunch of other stuff too But the main thing was, know all of these end-of-line equipment which includes a desk calibration at the end of line for the OEMs So that you know, they we decided to leverage that technology into the aftermarket, you know really look into the

experience and pedigree the company had at the end of the line and then let's automate and use all of this information to go and create aftermarket solutions. So that's kind of my role and kind of my history up to this point.

Joel (04:38.358)
Love it, I appreciate it. It's fair to say you've got a lot of experience in the development of the actual technology that's on the cars today, which I think is fascinating. I think when you think about when we just put a small square on a vehicle and we considered a radar, there's not a lot of thought of how that development actually goes into what's in that radar or what's in that camera. And I think we'll talk a little bit about like,

Brunno Moretti (04:45.027)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (05:07.404)
development stages of like how that technology kind of comes to life, what the life cycles are and things like that. And, you know, some of our early conversations on this, I was fascinated about it. So I want to certainly make sure we get some time into that. But when you talk about like end of line for the OEMs, like with what Burke Porter is doing, talk a little bit about what exactly does that mean? So we've got some clarity on.

Brunno Moretti (05:30.412)
Yeah, so look, the vehicle gets assembled right at the assembly plant. And once it is done being assembled, there's a lot of things that needs to do, right? Wheel alignment, you know, there is, you know, lots of tests that they run, right? So that equipment starts there's depending on the plant, right? But there are different stations the vehicle goes through, right? First station, for example, in some plants, you go in and you have to do your alignment. And at the same time,

You know the vehicle that machine that the vehicle is in there's a roller where the vehicle wheels are spinning so you can actually get feedback and then also in some areas Depending on the plant and on the OEM they try to combine the a desk calibration in the same station, right? As you know, OEMs are pumping vehicles, you know minute after minute, right? So the ability to do it super quick what's called tech time is extremely important, right? So then

You know, the vehicle, let's say they're done with their alignment and the calibration. Then they go to what's called a DVT, you know, dynamic vehicle tester. It's basically a treadmill. The vehicle goes in and we're able to get it up to 80 miles an hour. So it runs all of these other tests. You plug it into the vehicle right in both stations and you're checking for emissions. You're checking for a bunch of different things. So all of that capital equipment that goes into these stations.

is what BorgPorter does, right? We also do dinos, we do, you know, testing rigs for power train, for electric drives and all of this stuff in the R &D side of things, right? So when you think about the end of line, there's all of this equipment and software that goes into making, you know, that last final checks before the vehicle is actually out to getting shipped. And then of course, throughout development, there's a ton of areas where BorgPorter is involved in

Joel (07:09.708)
Thanks.

Brunno Moretti (07:25.24)
you know, test and measurement for anything, right? You think about it, there's a rig out there that we're testing and helping things and noise and vibe and a bunch of different things. So that's kind of like the umbrella of a lot of the transportation part of our company. We also have aerospace and industrial, medical life sciences and a bunch of other stuff. So we don't have time for that. Yeah.

Joel (07:45.964)
That's a whole other day of conversation on something completely different and certainly out of my strong suit to say the least. So that technology that's end of line that the OEMs are using, that's essentially the same technology that you guys have introduced at the aftermarket there where shops are, you make a relationship with a shop and there's an opportunity for them to utilize that equipment to help with a calibration post repair during the repair, correct?

Brunno Moretti (07:50.38)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

Brunno Moretti (08:13.57)
Yeah, the biggest thing, right? Because like we previously said, automation and speed are key at the end of line, right? So what we wanted to leverage the most is that experience with automating the process, reducing variance and making sure that it's done the same exact way every single time, right? You and I know that in the industry, there's a ton of different tools. All of the OEMs have different procedures. There's no standard, right? So, and then when you read

Joel (08:31.68)
Right. Right.

Brunno Moretti (08:43.116)
some of these procedures from OEMs, right? It's saying plumb bobs and tape measures, and then you create a diagram and then you try to find exact placing of the target. And that's just not repeatable. That's not, you you ask five different good techs and they're gonna do it five different ways. So what we try to do is just eliminate that, right? And say, look, our equipment is automated. You you get the vehicle in it, it automatically places the target exactly where it needs to be because we have this huge database.

of all of the OEM calibrating procedures from, you know, when ADAS started until now, and, you know, that gets translated into the system. The system then automates the locating of the targets. And then of course you plug in and calibrate, right? So it's really reducing the variance, which again, as we talk about quality of calibration and everything like that, not only the shaft, but insurance companies and all of the other constituents want to make sure that these things are done correctly.

And everything is documented from the very beginning to the end with precise data that shows, look, we followed it and you know, it does, it does meet the OEM requirements. And here's our liability proof, you know, that shows all of the details that we actually went through. So it's, it's a good thing for, you know, the shop, the quality of the service. And then of course the end user that gets their vehicle back.

Joel (10:04.758)
That's the most important piece of it, Is making sure we're putting people back in cars that are safe. And obviously if the OEMs are using this technology that you guys are using in the aftermarket at end of line, mean, how much closer could you get obviously in terms of meeting all of those sort of those check boxes. So that's fascinating. Appreciate you sharing that. And I would love to like, you you've started your career, said in this, you know, post-school and all that and getting into sort of this field.

Brunno Moretti (10:08.663)
Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (10:19.15)
All right.

Joel (10:33.952)
which it's always interesting how people kind of land in the automotive space to some degree. But what were some of the early lessons that you learned as far as like looking at the technology that's put on systems? You talked about like the rear backup cameras. I was like, what 2018 that was that regulation that went into effect, I think don't quote me the years wrong, but I think there. Yeah, where anything produced in terms of a vehicle after that, it had to have a backup camera. mean, what were some of the early lessons that you learned? Like what were some of the things that

Brunno Moretti (10:51.192)
FNVSS 111 I think it was.

Brunno Moretti (10:58.894)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (11:03.616)
that kept you kind of moving forward and motivated and kind of curbing that ambition, so to speak, as far as like what you saw.

Brunno Moretti (11:12.844)
Yeah, I think there's a very cool thing about working on something that actually translates into a larger goal, right? You know, there's different jobs out there and that you can do with with engineering and you know, just massive industry, right? So, but very early on, I got involved with ADAS because I could say, look, I'm doing my job, but I'm also at the same time, helping save lives, right? Like the

Even with the backup camera example, right, that was the main reason why there was a regulation is because there were so many very unfortunate accidents where people are backing up and they don't see their kids, right, or small animals or something. And that's just gut wrenching, right, just to think about it, right. So the fact that I got to work on technology that would prevent those kinds of things really is what got me super engaged into this industry and kept me going further and further into, you know, how do we

you know, go from just a backup camera, which is a passive way of doing things to go into something that's active, right, which is ADAS. And that's kind of been the driving, you know, force behind me kind of sticking around with this, you know, industry and, really enjoying what I do. So I get to marry the, the fact that yeah, we're companies and we're trying to make money, but we're also doing things that are good for society, right? Like I'm not just, we're not just chasing money. actually,

are doing things that will make it better for people in the streets and safer in the streets. So that was one of the things. And then you asked about learnings, right? The one cool thing about it is that once you're part of a large multinational organization like a GM or ZF, it is incredible to see just a number of smart people and the rigorous process that these technologies have to go through.

in order to meet the requirements for automotive. Automotive is one of the toughest. Consumer electronics, you don't have to have it work from minus 40 degrees to plus 85 Fahrenheit. You don't. Automotive does because everybody's expecting their vehicles to, you hit the button or you turn the key, it turns on. So there was times that we were in cold chamber testing and it's minus 40, it just...

Brunno Moretti (13:37.59)
It's really cool that, you know, to see that the resiliency and the amount of work that goes into making a vehicle in the time, right? When you look at it, how long a development cycle takes for a vehicle, it is, you know, I mean, it's more than five years, right? From very beginning to the ideation of the vehicle, to then getting first cut of metal, to then going into the validation cycle.

And then to go into the plant, right? There's just so many steps. And I was always in awe that everything worked at the end, right? Like, because it's a gazillion moving parts. Yeah, right. And it's a gazillion moving parts. And there are hundreds of, know, tens of thousands of people working in a single project. And, you know, from somebody that owns the visor, that somebody that owns the ADAS sensor, somebody that owns the whole vehicle, right? Like it's just so many competing.

Joel (14:14.229)
It's like a miracle.

Brunno Moretti (14:35.178)
opinions, priorities, and whatever. then somehow at the end, it comes out and it's a very nice, fully functional vehicle. for me, that was always like one of the big learnings is like, man, it's it takes a massive industry of people like just to get a vehicle out, you know, the door like from beginning to end.

Joel (14:52.192)
Yeah, that's fascinating. I am, you know, I'm always challenged by the technology that goes into a car. And you think of like vehicles of yesteryear with sheet metal and you open up the hood and it was pretty basic, right? You saw the engine and some of the other components and it's just evolved. Now you lift up a hood and it's completely different. It's everything has a purpose above and beyond what I think we're able to really understand about it. And then we get into like the actual technology that's sophisticatedly

put on the car in certain parts of it that the sensors talk to each other, the modules talk to each other. And if there's some sort of disruption, then things may not necessarily work correctly. And I think that's, you the thing that like you and I share amongst like many others as well is like making sure that it's not just a grab at, you know, life in terms of revenue or things like that, but it's a shared purpose of.

having that understanding, making sure that we have an emotional connection to the work that we're actually doing because it's really important. Because it really touches everybody that we know. mean, even if you don't drive a car, you may be in a vehicle that, forbid, like sensors aren't working or something's not working correctly. So it's incredibly imperative that we all have a stake in this. And I think that's like the overarching.

Brunno Moretti (15:51.694)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (16:15.392)
part of these conversations that we want to make sure we announce that it's really important. And again, I think you and I, speaking last week at the ADOT Symposium in Detroit at SEMA Garage, I that certainly was evident. And I'd love to talk a little bit about that. being able to hang out with you last week was phenomenal. I don't know exactly when this will be published. for the audience that's listening to this post recording.

Last week was the initial kickoff from SEMA Garage in Detroit, And MEMA, yes, yes, MEMA as it was called, which again, I don't think that's trademarked. So apologies to anybody out there listening and not understanding what that is. But a group of folks got together. think there was what, 60, 65 of us in a room, all varying different types of experience and parts of the industry from.

Brunno Moretti (16:46.433)
and Mima.

Brunno Moretti (16:51.278)
Shmema.

Joel (17:06.944)
really from the aftermarket side from repair to modification were represented really well in that room. again, facilitated by somebody that's got a lot of experience in Jim Fish was a phenomenal facilitator, obviously with his professorship background at the University of Michigan and some of the other folks that were part of coordinating all of this. I mean, it was a top notch event. And I'll be really curious to see like what materializes out of those conversations and some of the workshops and things that we did.

What was your take on it? Like what did you come back with and like, you know, car ride home and thinking of it sort of like late last week, you know, what were what were your kind of your takeaways and what were you excited about from?

Brunno Moretti (17:49.622)
Yeah, no, I agree with everything you said, right? I think it was a well done event by SEMA and MEMA with the goal of trying to understand, you know, what can we do as an industry in the aftermarket to put our hands around the problem, right? Of ADAS, you know, when you have it in the vehicle, it's great. There's a lot of studies and data out there to show that it helps reduce accidents. But when something does happen and you have to recalibrate it or

Like you said, in the upfitters, they are modifying the vehicle and they're not sure if the ADAS is working right. So that was kind of the premise. having so many people from different backgrounds, but all leaders in the industry was very, to me, what was clear is everybody knew we needed to do something, right? Everybody had pain stories, horror stories of, man, I had this one thing that happened with ADAS or I had this problem with this vehicle or

Joel (18:37.889)
Yes.

Brunno Moretti (18:49.368)
You know, all of those were things that everybody had in common, that they knew that there is a gap there that needs to be filled. And then how do we go about it? And that's what Jim, you know, helped facilitate is the ideation of not only what the problems are. So we did a lot of ideation and try to truly define the problem and quantify the problem. And then of course, what kinds of solutions we can put in place and with organizations like SEMA and MEMA.

Joel (19:01.206)
Yep.

Brunno Moretti (19:18.51)
can help leverage their size and their influence to create something or a campaign or legislation language or something that helps us put that together. So that was like my, was really cool to be a part of that, right? What I also noticed, and it was kind of apparent in you and I briefly chatted about that is that most of the companies there and the representatives there, you you see that the aftermarket industry is just not yet.

Joel (19:24.992)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (19:48.91)
using and leveraging technology right to do things the better and faster and safer way. It's still a lot of manual and there's some things that are always going to be right but there's just so many opportunities that I walked away and saying wow there is just this industry is ripe for you know I'm gonna say but like ripe for this you know disruption you know I know a lot of people overuse that but you know it is a very manual laborious

Joel (20:15.212)
True.

Brunno Moretti (20:18.542)
you know, industry that people have been doing things the same way for a very long time. So to see that that was also for me, it sparked a big light bulb saying, wow, there's a huge opportunity here for for us to to help automate and use and leverage technology to make safer decisions. You know, things like what Rev does, right? Using AI and other, you know, technology to tell shops, hey, you have to do these collaborations. That's huge. Right. Nobody was really doing that. There is a few companies, right?

but I don't think anybody has had the impact that you guys had. And you know, just that that's one little aspect of it, right? When you think about the whole life cycle of that and you know, just how technology can be so helpful. And I think that's why you guys have had such a good traction because it's a easy to use product. You know, it tells you exactly what you need to do. And so I think the industry is yearning for this kind of, you know, technology addition.

Joel (21:15.85)
Yeah, think disruption is a fair word. I mean, in all honesty, what I came back with and I had a relatively short plane ride home, but I mean, I was spent from the workshops that we did in the groups and there was a lot of thought and it really challenged you to think about, like you say, was ideation of problems, really narrowing those problems down because you could list a thousand problems. And then that's obviously, all right, well, let's.

let's work together to create some sort of resolution and solution of these things. a lot of the, I think, final answers that came from like the six or seven groups that were workshopping together, a lot of those solutions were disruptive or would be disruptive. And depending on which direction those things go, based on decisions made by Seema and Meema working together.

Brunno Moretti (21:56.888)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Joel (22:05.228)
you know, if there's one or two or three that they ultimately act on, I have a fair belief that those will be disruptive. They will take time. They will take a lot of effort. They will take a of a lot of volunteer people power and things like that, but they ultimately will be disruptive. I think ADOS has been disruptive. The gap that we're feeling right now is this, you where are we at? What do we need to do?

how much efficiencies do we need to gain and how manually currently is the whole process. And you talk about like the manual process of like plumb bobs and tape measures and tape on the floor. And that's gotten us to a certain level of, all right, we need to continue to modify efficiencies to not just improve our level of service, but just a better experience overall and both internally at the shop for the aftermarket folks and obviously for the consumers themselves too. So.

Man, I'm right on with you there as far as like sort of my takeaways too. you gave a presentation, you were able to get up in front of the group and very unbelievably candid opportunity, I think, to get a lot of eyeballs on what you presented. Take a few minutes, walk us through what you did and sort of the hypothesis and what your presentation was about, I guess.

Brunno Moretti (23:26.828)
Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, as soon as I joined, you know, this, the Burke Porter and what I wanted to do is, you know, I kept getting told, I'm like, well, we have to follow OEM procedure. I get, I get why, right? And an OEM procedure, you know, is the best. Okay. Well, and there's people doing poor calibrations and using, you know, bad equipment or bad, you know, methods. I was like, okay.

And how much better is a proper OEM calibration versus a poor one? I don't know. Well, nobody knew the answer, right? So in my mind, coming from a background of engineering, right, you need to quantify what the issue is, right, to truly see what we're dealing with. And nobody had done that. We looked and looked for any kind of test. There's always been little studies here and there of high, you know, hypothesis or hypotheticals, right?

Joel (24:25.195)
Yes.

Brunno Moretti (24:25.336)
Yeah, that, you know, what could happen. And I was like, okay, well, we need to go and uncover that rock. Right. And basically what I wanted to do, what we did was we got a new vehicle. We tested all of the NHTSA approved, you know, test for AEB, for pedestrian AEB, for, you know, adaptive cruise control, lane keep assist or lane keep, you know, the lane alert departure warning and

you know, run it with the baseline vehicle, run it with a vehicle that had no calibration, which is mimicking a vehicle that came had some repair that kind of modify the location of the the camera or the radar or things that we anecdotally saw in the field several times, right? And then a poor calibration, which is again, doing it outside, no flat floors, not following the OEM procedure, not checking tires, not

filling the gas tank or in some cases, and then a proper good calibration, which, you know, we used our equipment in a very controlled environment with flat floors and diffuse lighting and all of that, right? So that was the goal was to measure the discrepancy between those different methods or how to do calibrations. And, you know, the presentation then goes through and walk through

the actual results and we actually have a white paper coming out with those results. So hopefully soon we'll be able to share that with the team. But basically, findings, the hypothesis before going into it was like, the baseline will perform great. The no calibration is gonna fail most of its tests, if not all of them. The poor calibration is gonna have erratic.

Joel (26:14.636)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (26:18.732)
big variance kind of behavior and then the good calibration is going to match the baseline. But when we actually did a test, right, because look, we, I took a risk with by doing this because I could have uncovered that a poor calibration, a good calibration are the same, or I could have covered that it does worse or something, right? But I said, I need to uncover this because otherwise I feel like I'd be selling a lie, right? Like I need to quantify it. So yeah, the, the, the results show that, you know, the good calibration perform

Joel (26:33.472)
Right, right, yep.

Brunno Moretti (26:48.694)
Better than the poor the poor calibration had more erratic behavior larger variance So in a B events it would stop super early or stop super late So big variance in those numbers the good calibration was tightly controlled right you knew to what to expect every time and The no calibration smashed through the target every single time I mean it didn't even blink at it and didn't even engage the brakes or anything like that. It just you

plowed right through targets, right? So again, that confirmed a lot of the hypothesis. Now there were some surprises, right? And the biggest one to me was that, you know, the vehicle that we used was a 2024 vehicle with 13,000 miles. So not old, not many miles on it. And you know, we double check and there wasn't any, no prior damage, right? And you know, that performed worse.

Joel (27:40.8)
had no prior damage on this car, right? mean, was great.

Brunno Moretti (27:47.762)
than the poor calibration and even worse than the good calibration. So that was a big eye opener to us that, know, and Joel, keep in mind, right? This is one vehicle, several tasks, right? So it's a small data set, but again, somebody had to start. And that's what we were trying to do is to get it starting, understanding what's happening and having data to back it up, right? So I don't want people to think this is a vast,

study with hundreds of cars. No, it was one car, but we did run it several times with several different, you know, types of calibrations, right? But yeah, the baseline, you know, for example, in the pedestrian AB, it, you know, hit the target or the pedestrian four out of the seven times. And then the poor and the good calibration, the poor calibration did not hit it, but it also got extremely close and again, variance and then the good calibration have very

standard, no hits, and also within always the same stopping distance, right? So it was very interesting to know that a regular wear and tear of 13,000 miles in this specific vehicle was enough to throw off the ADAS system that it needed a calibration, right? And it brings up this whole, should calibrations be part of maintenance, right? So it was very eye-opening.

Joel (29:08.63)
Yeah, yeah. For sure, yeah, I think, you know, I've been a part of presentations in the past and the conversation or the questions come up like, we live in the Midwest, it's full of potholes, rough roads. You know, if you buy a vehicle and the end of line calibration still exists, but you drive at a certain distance and miles and time and things like that, does ultimately that stuff start to shift and move a little bit?

one vehicle, obviously, like you say, it's a small sample size. But the proof in that one vehicle shows that 13,000 miles in, there is some variance there. There is some potential for exactly for some concern for lack of a better way of saying it. It's fascinating. And again, remind me who you did the study with. It was a group out of Ohio, correct?

Brunno Moretti (30:00.546)
Yeah, it was the transportation research center. there, know, the TRC, NHTSA, you know, uses them for a lot of their testing. Honda kind of co-owns it. It's weird in like situation where they own the land, it's something. But Honda does a bunch of their testing there from Marysville, right? Cause they're right there. And then all their OEMs use it as a good testing truck. So they're like, you know, extremely science-based. I mean,

Joel (30:02.912)
That TRC, right, right, yeah.

Joel (30:18.902)
Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (30:29.3)
you look at the vehicle, the whole backseat was instrumentation to measure the inertia, to measure little microphones, to hear when the beep went with millisecond accuracy. The dummy vehicles and dummy pedestrian, they all have sensors and we know exactly what the distance is between the vehicle we were driving and the dummy. So they're able to really give you, know, centimeter.

you know, level of accuracy when knowing what the stopping distances was, when the alert came and all of that. So they do an excellent job of giving you true data that is reliable, that you can start making some, you know, decisions based on that. But again, you know, we need to, as an industry, run many more studies, right? With simple size of lots of vehicles.

Joel (31:20.396)
Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (31:24.43)
to really start understanding what that looks like, right? What is the size of this problem, right? I uncovered one little pebble, but if we keep flipping rocks, we're gonna find either bigger issues or we're gonna find things that are performing more according to what we think, right? So, and then gathering all of the information, normalizing it and getting what the average is to truly quantify what this problem is. But it was just the first step and I'm excited that we did it. I think the...

the response at the symposium, people were kind of blown away the fact that somebody was actually going after and doing this and trying to quantify this. So I think it was extremely important for us to do it and I'm glad that we did.

Joel (32:06.796)
Do you have any aspirations to do additional testing on different vehicles at some point down the future? Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (32:11.852)
Yeah, we, it costs a lot of money. No, no, no, it is not cheap. because they do good work, they can charge a decent price, right? But, no, we, because of the end of line stuff that we do, right. As, Bergport, we have technology that, you know, the, the, rollers that I told you about the DVT, right. Those are, you know, the vehicle is stationary in a, in a location, but we, we have a.

Joel (32:15.328)
That thing's cheap.

Joel (32:33.76)
Yep. Yep.

Brunno Moretti (32:41.738)
prototype that we've been using and you know working with different companies that we are actually able to place the vehicle in this this DVT and we have a scene generator for the camera and we have a radar target emulator that we can then induce the vehicle to do you know engage the ADAS so we will perform a lot more tests it's going to be in this controlled and cheaper environment for us right but

Joel (33:09.238)
You

Brunno Moretti (33:11.328)
Now we have with this technology, we have the chance to verify the ADAS performance of several different vehicles with statistically significant numbers. And then, you know, maybe a year from now, next time we talk, right on a podcast or something, I can show you those results. But we are definitely engaged in starting that process of continuing the tests. So again, we can help quantify the size of the problem.

Joel (33:38.704)
I have to believe there'd be other people that might be interested in being part of this or some sort of relationship or partnership. Because think, again, there's a lot of folks that are highly interested in vehicle safety. This sample size, I think, if they saw the presentation and the white paper when it gets released, it will open up some eyeballs as far as the hypothesis, the baseline.

Brunno Moretti (33:49.39)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (34:03.476)
considering the short amount of time this particular vehicle is driven, but then obviously the results in some regards where specifically with no calibration, the results are terrible. Right? mean, that's the thing that I think concerns me the most is, all right, let's say you're doing calibrations in an uncontrolled environment and you're at least doing something, right? You're at least trying to validate within some level of measure.

Brunno Moretti (34:17.07)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (34:33.28)
that things are working as they should.

Whereas if you're not doing any calibrations, which we know there's still a huge gap of number of cars that need something that aren't getting it. This is this, this should be that sort of that olive leaf of like, Hey, this is the wake up call. This is the thing that you really need to pay attention to. And this is the thing that shop owners think about in terms of liability and safety. And it's only going to continue to perpetuate. So I don't want to be a Debbie downer on this by any stretch, but again, I really wanted to, I wanted to talk about it. I didn't have it on our radar to chat about, but

when you when you did the presentation like I'm like we've got to talk about this so

Brunno Moretti (35:09.058)
No, but I think, you you said you don't want to be a Debbie Donner, right? But I think we have to sound the alarm. And every time either I have a keynote or something, I always bring this stuff up. And I said, you know, I hope you guys are scared because it's scary out there. Right. There's just a lot of potential concern and, you just there hasn't been this landmark lawsuit, but you know, one is coming.

Joel (35:15.286)
Yeah.

Joel (35:24.512)
Yeah, it is.

Brunno Moretti (35:37.986)
Right, you know somebody's not gonna calibrate, somebody is either gonna calibrate poorly and there's gonna be an accident and there's gonna be a massive lawsuit, right? So we're just, you know, waiting for that, not just waiting to happen, but we know it's gonna happen and we're just trying to anticipate that's what doesn't have to happen, right? So I'm okay being a Debbie Downer, right? Because it's, yeah, well, we're trying to like sound this alarm and.

Joel (35:58.348)
The voice of reason. Or at least two, yeah.

Brunno Moretti (36:03.928)
You know, the more we peel the onion, and the more we see that there's just not that there's no government, you know, guidance, there's no government, legislation or regulation that says anything about, you know, calibration, right? So shops and companies are free to do what they want. And the insurance companies, you know, are involved. But, you know, if they're paying for it, they're kind of off the hook, right? And the liability perspective. So it's a, it really lands on the shop owners to truly

understand what the liability concerns are of not doing it, of course, big one there, right? Missing it and then just, you know, could be called negligence and then doing it incorrectly or farming it out to a shop that does it incorrectly and then have it coming back to bite you, right? So that's all things that, you know, you, yeah, you can say it's a dabby down. It was like, man, guys, you need to pay attention to this because it's not, it's not going away. You know, ADAS is, you know,

I think something like 30 to 40 % of vehicles on the road today, which is a, you know, 12.5 or 12.6 years, the average age of a vehicle on the road. And then, know, that 90 % of new vehicles have some level of ADAS, right? And you know that in 2029, there's the new, you know, federal regulation, FMVFS 127, that's going to require AB to be, you know, 100 % penetration in every vehicle, right? So the problem is only going to get bigger.

Joel (37:22.262)
Yes.

Brunno Moretti (37:30.758)
and nobody has been sounding the alarm. I think, know, podcasts like this are a way for us to get the information out to people and say, you need to be paying attention to this.

Joel (37:40.64)
Yep, I agree. totally agree. And that kind of like moves us into that next thing that I wanted to chat a little bit about is that that regulation coming down in four years. You know, we had regulation back in like 2018 with rear backup cameras. I think for myself noted, it's a huge safety thing, right? Being able to visually see kind of behind the vehicle. so.

You know, A, B, automatic emergency braking, the regulation coming down, FMV 127 will mandate that every vehicle produced at that point going forward will have automatic emergency braking, which will help with certain ADOS functionality. That's obviously going to allow the vehicle for momentarily takeover if it, if it determines that there may be some sort of sudden impact in front of the car.

Brunno Moretti (38:11.775)
FMVSS 127.

Joel (38:34.988)
Talk a little bit more about that. Like, what do you think is, is it good for regulation or is it good for the industry to have this? I mean, I think for the consumer and society, it certainly is, there's benefit, right? Anytime there's additional safety measures taken, it's benefit. You you go back to like the 70s when the breaking, not the disc breaking, but the, losing my train of thought. What's that?

Brunno Moretti (39:02.254)
The The drum breaking? What are you talking about?

Joel (39:05.322)
Well, when we went from the disc brakes to ABS, yes, my goodness, I couldn't think of it, ABS, and that was a huge thing. And then I heard it mentioned that traction control may be the greatest safety feature of all time, quite frankly. And I'd love to get your thoughts on, like, number one, regulation.

Brunno Moretti (39:10.02)
A, B, A, S. Yeah.

Joel (39:26.636)
But number two on this particular regulation, like what are your thoughts as far as is this good? Is this bad? Is this does this continue to drive the narrative of like not going away? Like you mentioned.

Brunno Moretti (39:37.774)
Yeah, well, it definitely is not going away and it's only getting more prime time, right? As far as ADAS is here to stay and it's gonna be in every vehicle, right? Eventually it's just gonna be a fact. Starting with the F and VSS 127, right? This is personally, I think it's a good thing, right? Because when you look at what's in the market today, ADAS is a feature.

ADAS is not considered safety, You know, by the OEMs and yes, it helps with it, blah, blah, blah. But whenever you make it an option, right? Think about an OEM making an airbag optional today. Everybody would scoff at that, right? That's what's gonna happen with ADAS, right? ADAS is gonna become the standard that's gonna be associated with safety, not with the feature, right? So safety is not a feature, right? It should be standard. So that...

that regulation does that. It makes the OEMs put that technology into the vehicles. When you look at today's technologies, right? There was a study from AAA in 2024 that showed the effectiveness of AEB in vehicles that were in 2018 versus 2024. I do, yeah. It's not a podcast like this. It's an AI podcast.

Joel (40:58.89)
And you did a podcast on that yourself too, right? You did. Yeah. Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (41:06.1)
It's called a desk garage. But you know, I use AI technology to dissect a topic. So for example, one of the episodes was this AAA study. And it's just a quick, easy way 15 minutes way to for you to consume information, right? Rather than sitting down and reading hundreds of pages of a PDF, right? So for me, that's what I started the podcast and actually is, you know, people like it, you know, we're in over

22 countries now. So yeah, you so it's a, again, I think people are seeking to understand and that's what it kind of hit a, that nerve with people and it's been mildly successful, I'd call it, right? So it's, it's not like a hit. I'm not quitting my job anytime soon, right? But, you know, that, that study says that the, you know, the 2024 vehicles performed much better than the 2018 vehicles. Now with a big caveat, the caveat was that it works

Joel (41:36.404)
Awesome, man. I love to hear it. That's great.

Brunno Moretti (42:04.59)
very well from zero to 35 miles an hour, right? Anything above 35, it drops dramatically, right? And anything above 45, it's almost not working. So with that in mind, you look at FMVSS 127, and I don't know exactly the number, the speed, but the AB has to work at higher speed, something like 62 miles an hour. I could be wrong, don't quote me.

Joel (42:32.428)
Yeah, I heard 62 or 64 or something like that. Yeah. Right.

Brunno Moretti (42:34.636)
Yeah, but higher. And it also has to work for pedestrians, right? Not only for vehicles and it has to work at night. That's a big difference maker, right? Because there was also lots of data from from NITSA showing that pedestrian deaths are the only one that are key that kept growing over the years versus others, right? So that shows that ADOT systems today are not good at

Joel (42:46.924)
Big, big, big, yeah.

Brunno Moretti (43:02.796)
detecting pedestrians, especially at night. And that's because your camera doesn't see very well at night, just like your eyes. And because a pedestrian has a very small radar cross section, you it's called a RCS. And it has a trouble detecting that. So even at night, when the camera can't see well and the radar, it has a hard time with a smaller target that's not metal, it struggles with it. So you saw this.

is something that the government focused on is like, got to make pedestrians and the higher speed vehicles being able to for the ADAS to stop from collisions and to be able to perform at night. Right. So that from a safety perspective is fantastic. Right. So, you know, I have kids, you know, they're running on streets, right. And doing all of the things that kids do to know that we have technology that's coming, that's going to help prevent any kind of accidents like that. For me, it's a win.

It does also introduce more complex technology. It introduces higher resolution cameras, imaging radars, which are four times more powerful than the current radars. so you are now introducing more powerful sensors. And some vehicles could choose LiDAR to do it as well, right? Because it's active lighting and it will see it at night and see small pedestrians, small objects.

you're gonna see a mix of the OEM is not telling them how to do it. So each OEM is gonna figure out a solution. So again, we go back to that discussion of standardization. There is not gonna be a standardization on the sensor set. It's gonna be a standardization on the results. So then you're gonna have OEMs using more cameras, radars, lighters, combination of all three. So that is gonna introduce a lot of confusion and concern to the aftermarket and service industry.

Joel (45:01.206)
all the more reason why we need to get out further ahead of this now versus waiting until it's on our doorstep, which it's rapidly approaching to say the least. So fascinating. I think some of the technology in the cameras, like you mentioned at night, and I've read some of this a little bit too, like the technology on the camera on your cell phone may be of better quality. I could be wrong. This is what I feel I've read. The better quality.

Brunno Moretti (45:03.981)
Mm-hmm.

Joel (45:31.084)
versus what's potentially in some vehicles now, only because of the age of the camera or the sophistication of like what was available at that time, three, four years old, like some of those vehicles that are 2018, 2019, 2020 now. And so let's talk about like, does an OEM, what's that life cycle like to get from concept to it's now in the vehicle and it's activated, it's live, it's.

How long does that take?

Brunno Moretti (46:03.852)
I think it's a long time. It does. But to your first part of the question, which is like, the quality is better. Yeah, like the number of megapixels in a cell phone camera is much, much higher than what's in the vehicle. And there's a reason for that, right? Because of your question of how long does development take? So you've got to throw back backwards paths four years ago.

Joel (46:16.8)
Megapixels, yeah, couldn't think of the word, yeah.

Brunno Moretti (46:32.438)
is what is on the roads right now. Right? So four years ago, you had whatever technology available, but then you can say, four years ago, my camera on the iPhone was already pretty good. Right? That's right. Because to our previous point of consumer electronics don't have to go through the same rigorous testing of minus 40 to plus 85 Fahrenheit. You know, you just don't have as many suppliers that are spending

tons of money to create these components. So an imager on a camera, right? The imager on the camera of your iPhone is top notch because it doesn't have to go through these massive tests. And consumer, you're selling gazillion iPhones versus vehicles. Yes, it's still in the millions, right, for vehicles, but it's not nearly as big as what a consumer industry is.

The supply base is constrained and you have to go through this test and you have to have somebody willing to spend the money and the time to create some. So, yeah, the technology is always lagging because, you know, there is just that much more that you have to do. And by the way, the minus 42, one, two, two 85 is for the vehicle, which if the vehicle sitting on the sun, you know, the internals of something is much more. So those tier two, two, three suppliers, actually have to make it.

work at 120 degrees Fahrenheit, right? So it's it's extremely hot, you know, environment that these have to work. So yeah, there is just a lot of work that goes into that. So you see a little bit of a lag as far as the development cycle. Yeah. It takes, you know, the suppliers themselves, a lot of times they start development because they think, yeah, there's going to be

a need for this more powerful radar, right? So that takes just to get some proofs of concept two years, right? Then, you know, something working because there's just so much engineering on, for example, the antenna of the radar and all of the testing you have to do in the chambers. And then the mimic chips, which are what actually produces the radio waves, you know, that's system on a chip. And then there is just a lot of work that you have to do to produce the chips and a lot of investment, right?

Brunno Moretti (48:58.272)
Then the OEMs are like, hey, I want to put this in a vehicle four years from now, right? Cause they usually source four, five, sometimes three, depends on the OEM, right? Ahead of a release of a vehicle. Then those suppliers will say, here's what I have. It's at a certain level, right? There's A samples, B samples, C samples, and then production, right? D samples is what was.

It passed design validation, it passed process validation. Those are standard automotive terms, That if somebody's listening, they know. But if you don't know, these are standard tests that you have to pass. lot of these tests are 16 weeks, right? And then if you fail it, a certain leg of it, you have to redo it, right? So then they engage the OEMs, engage the suppliers, then they go through this development from B sample all the way to D sample.

as the vehicle is also progressing into their, you know, lifetime and then our life cycle. And then finally, right, once it's getting to production, you know, it was five to seven years before when the actual technology was first developed on a prototype stage.

Joel (50:09.472)
That's crazy. And these suppliers, I mean, they're held to, is it ISO standards or SAE standards or what typically, or what level of sophistication of standard are they held to to make sure their manufacturing processes, their operational standards or things are held in check and.

Brunno Moretti (50:27.043)
Yeah.

Specifically to ADAS, right, there's something called ASO, which is automotive safety integrity level, right? And then they measure the lowest levels QM, which is quality management or something like that. And then go ASO A, ASO B, ASO C, ASO D, right? It will depend. It's not like they are following an ISO that they say, I need to make this whatever, right?

Joel (50:35.571)
ASAP, right?

Brunno Moretti (50:58.158)
Some OEMs, depending on the safety case, they will say, I need my radars to be ASOB, which is a, there's a certain level of self diagnosis that has to happen. Like a watchdog inside of itself that needs to be able to tell the vehicle, the computer and the vehicle that something is not going right. Please don't engage, know, like sets a flag up and says, hi, something wrong with me, right? So then there's like, you know,

QM which is again almost nothing right there's just no real requirement so Depending on the OEM and depending on the safety case they then leverage that requirement on the supplier to say I need this radar or this camera to be an ASO B component now when you do that it adds money right because I'm adding Sensors I'm adding temperature sensors. I'm adding watchdogs. I'm adding software

I'm all sorts of things to those components that are going to be able to detect if something is wrong. Right. And, and then there's the, the highest level is ASO D, which is almost like a, you know, I know everything that's going on with myself, you know, you know, I can report things. I can, have some level of redundancy that helps me, you know, if something breaks, I can fall back into something, right.

Joel (51:58.166)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (52:18.606)
A lot of times you see the safety case being that a system has to be ASO D, right? Meaning my ADAS system is ASO D because I have a camera, I have a radar and have a lighter. And if one of those ASO B as in boy, you know, fails, I can still drive the vehicle with the other two sensor modalities, right? So stuff like this, it is, again, there's not, I mean, there's ISO 26262, which is

functional safety standard that you can, that's how you basically say, yeah, I prove that I am ASO whatever. But again, there's not, there's not a requirement that an OEM has to be, everything that they do has to be a certain ASO or has to be meet that whatever, right? So there, again, there's very little regulation that is telling the OEMs how this has to run. And then it comes down to decisions.

Joel (52:57.196)
Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (53:16.844)
by each OEM and then each OEM may have conflicting priorities and costs versus other things. So you're gonna have varying levels of performance and safety case depending on the OEM.

Joel (53:28.012)
Fascinating.

Joel (53:31.703)
Let's shift gears here a little bit. Like this is just phenomenal. Like your level of knowledge and depth, it's just to reiterate kind of like what you mentioned, let's definitely get back on another chat, another podcast at some point. thinking about the future, you know, we talk about like the regulation coming down in a couple of years. You know, I've got a couple of kind of final questions I wanna kind of pose to you here and you can kind of answer them collectively together. where do you think...

Where does Bruno think we're headed in the next three to five years? And if you had five minutes to spend with a shop owner or five minutes to spend with a technician, what advice would you give them?

Brunno Moretti (54:13.102)
All right. So the first question, you know, next three to five years, I see a lot of confusion and chaos because again, I think we know the state of the industry today. There's already confusion and it's only going to grow. Right. But I also see a lot of positives where, you know, like the symposium with, with SEMA and MEMA, there are active efforts and trying to mitigate or help eliminate some of the confusion and education. Right. So I think, you know,

I'm both hopeful and a little concerned, right? Because again, there's just so many different body shops and insurance companies and constituents and stakeholders that are just not aware or not as well informed on the things that are going on. Right. And we didn't even touch on the, you know, the vehicles that are coming, which you get in the US from three to five years. Yeah, there is a vehicles coming out in 2026, 2027.

Joel (55:08.524)
Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (55:13.422)
That will have five cameras six radars one LiDAR right that's happening that is in their roadmaps and VW announced it with mobile eye and value that they're doing it right so That is gonna grow and that's gonna grow, you know If we're not prepared the the industry is gonna suffer right with being able to comply with the requirements being able to you know Calibrate systems being able to detect if they need to be calibrated all that kind of stuff, right? So

Joel (55:24.438)
Yep. All that. Yep. Yep.

Brunno Moretti (55:43.478)
Look, I spend a lot of time with shop owners and estimators and technicians, right? But, you know, one of the things is always get informed, right? And I think that was one of the original reasons why I created the A Desk Garage podcast is because I wanted to create an easy way for people to understand the technology, understand the impacts, understand implications of what calibration is and

You know, I haven't really even gotten too much into calibration, to be honest, because I wanted to start the podcast with what is ADAS? What does it do? How are people seeing it? How is it performing? What do insurance companies see? What are the benefits? Right. So all of those are things that I wanted to focus on and later episodes, right. We're going to address more of that calibration side of things, but I wanted to make it a educational podcast to really help people. So in talking to you, man.

I'm coughing over here. Well, we know it's real. It's not AI. But, you know, it's really just take the time to educate the people in the shop, take the time to understand the impacts of not doing things properly, right? And, you know, for their own well-being, right? For liability, you know, United States is very litigious. So something happens and it's on your hands, right? You're the last one to touch the vehicle. So

Joel (56:42.028)
You're good. Yeah, you're good.

Yeah.

Brunno Moretti (57:09.74)
be extremely careful with that. it's more, it's all about education at this point is really getting the word out.

Joel (57:14.988)
Yeah, I completely agree. I think it's more of like the shift in thought now with, know, obviously there's a certain age of vehicle that's on the road, like it's 12, 12 and a half years, and we fast forward five, six years, and if that's still sort of the same age range of like vehicles on the road, well now that's, it's not 2012s under the road, it's 2017s, 2018s, 2019s, which certainly that level of.

number of vehicles that have got ADAS on the road has increased at the same rate. it's now more of, you should be checking boxes on why you're not calibrating something on that car. It's not finding what you need to calibrate or finding what you need to do in terms of a steering angle reset or a functional operation that's tied to safety. It should be like, right, I'm not coming up with anything from researching OEM procedures or...

platform like a rev or whatever you're using. And I'm trying to validate that it's telling me I don't need to do anything. Is this actually correct? And now it's like, all right, it's not finding what you need to do. It's finding out like if there is nothing to do, right? Because it is just maybe a simple bumper job or something simple. It's not triggering a calibration. That's, I think that's the narrative and that's the shift and like where as a shop owner, I would start thinking about like.

All right, I've got a car here that I can't find anything that I need to calibrate in my, and I've reached two, three different things. My redundancies, I've put things in place here in terms of how we look at these things. And I think you probably share sort of that same sentiment too, even now. Let's not wait a couple years to get to that point, but we gotta really start shifting that narrative. So, man, I really appreciate this. I will let you go. Yeah, no, this has been great. I feel like we could.

Brunno Moretti (58:55.587)
Mm-hmm.

Brunno Moretti (59:00.365)
Agreed.

Brunno Moretti (59:03.992)
This was awesome,

Joel (59:08.31)
jab around about this pretty much all day long. Maybe next time we can do this on the golf course and we'll get a GoPro to follow us around for a day or something like that. Make it really interesting. But Bruno, appreciate it. Love what you're doing, man. Really just keep fighting the fight. Obviously, if there's anything we can do, please let us know. But we appreciate your time and appreciate everybody chiming in today and taking a listen to everything like that.

Brunno Moretti (59:12.728)
There you go, yeah.

Brunno Moretti (59:18.274)
Yeah, I love that idea.

Brunno Moretti (59:23.566)
Appreciate it.

Joel (59:35.222)
Good luck to everybody. If you have any questions, reach out to Bruno at Essential Technologies. He's on LinkedIn, not hard to find. Again, Joel with Rev. We appreciate everybody and we'll let you all go. Thank you. Amen.

Brunno Moretti (59:45.582)
All right, thanks, Joe.